Curse

DawnOfDeath · Jul 06, 2010, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I was wondering which one is more appreciated in PuGs.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 06, 2010, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Probably MM. Given that 99% of people in PuG's have no remote idea what they're doing, awesome skills like MoP are less useful because the physicals (probably spamming Healing Breeze on themselves or something equally stupid) won't follow your calls. If you need some curse spells you can always throw them onto the end of the MM bar.

Scorpionwitch · Jul 07, 2010, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Always nice to have a little army of minions to body block enemies and take some of the heat off the party. Just remember some areas don't have alot of fleshy corpses which makes MM pretty useless so having a backup build is a good idea. You can always swap builds back and forth as needed.

RedDog91 · Jul 07, 2010, 01:13 AM // 01:13

If you want to be in a PuG, you need to be MM.
Most PuG leaders will kick you for not being an MM, becuz they have no clue what they themselves are doing, much less what you're doing.

Luminarus · Jul 07, 2010, 01:53 AM // 01:53

It depends on the pug party. You can always bring a hero MM, which just synergises with a curses necro. On the other hand, if theres no physicals then your very limited.

Naughty Nurse · Jul 07, 2010, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Theres no better option, they are both viable. Depends on the area and the rest of the party.

If theres already 3 or 4 physicals and an SoS in your party, go curses. If your party is full of casters, and has no SoS or physicals, MM is better.

N I T E Stalker · Jul 07, 2010, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Personally I think that MMs are more wanted...

gremlin · Jul 07, 2010, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Both are good but it depends on the party, there can be 2 disadvantages to the undead army.

The MM needs a slower rate of movement as they are spending a lot of time healing their army.
This can annoy some players as they try to clear areas quickly, esp those who depend on adrenaline.

Secondly its easy for the army to run around and attract to many enemies to the party.

Lack of corpses isn't really a problem any more, as you can create them from thin air with Aura of the Lich, an elite found in Prophesies.
Get that and army creation is easy.

Personal choice for me is to hand the MM task over to a Henchman or hero necro and run Curses myself it's less boring.

O Nuxtofulakas · Aug 03, 2010, 02:04 PM // 14:04

MM nowdays means "bomber"...
this also means that Hero bomber > Human bomber ....cause humans cannot micromanage as effectively as heroes...

Hard to find teams asking human mm bomber...

Grim Lich · Aug 04, 2010, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas

MM nowdays means "bomber"...
this also means that Hero bomber > Human bomber ....cause humans cannot micromanage as effectively as heroes...

Hard to find teams asking human mm bomber...

Not necessarily.

My OoU Fiends still out perform my Bomber hero. Of course the downside is they cannot tank to save anything.

If you need a defensive MM (Usually AotL or Bomber) your better off with a hero. If you need an offensive MM (OoU with 10/11 Fiends (Vamp minions are useless)) you are better of with a human.

Cuilan · Aug 04, 2010, 03:50 AM // 03:50

I'd rather have necromancers SS/Barbs/MoP due to many players lacking non-necromancer skills or more "alternative" things. Then again, I did ToPK hard mode with a mesmer MM (not me) and made it, so maybe that isn't a valid reason.

O Nuxtofulakas · Aug 04, 2010, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

Not necessarily.

My OoU Fiends still out perform my Bomber hero. Of course the downside is they cannot tank to save anything.

If you need a defensive MM (Usually AotL or Bomber) your better off with a hero. If you need an offensive MM (OoU with 10/11 Fiends (Vamp minions are useless)) you are better of with a human.

Bomber is defensive mm?

i wouldn't say so - it causes tons of aoe armor ingnoring dmg in seconds.

Also, "OuU fiends army" has serious drawbacks:
1. takes time and needs tons of nrg to make and maintain 10/11 fiends army
2. blood of the master and OuU spam will kill you without vampiric minions
3. fiends die easily with even 1 aoe enemy spell since they stack together
4. many times they block party members from advancing/attacking since they have range attack.

Xenomortis · Aug 04, 2010, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas

Bomber is defensive mm?

i wouldn't say so - it causes tons of aoe armor ingnoring dmg in seconds.

No, but it requires only a few skills allowing the rest of the bar to be defensive support - which is excellent for H/H scenarios.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas

Also, "OuU fiends army" has serious drawbacks:
1. takes time and needs tons of nrg to make and maintain 10/11 fiends army
2. blood of the master and OuU spam will kill you without vampiric minions
3. fiends die easily with even 1 aoe enemy spell since they stack together
4. many times they block party members from advancing/attacking since they have range attack.

Don't suck. The time spent raising an army is inherent to all MM builds that don't use AotL or Bone Minions. Maintaining 11 fiends is not recommended - having a few (4ish) Vamp Horrors in the mix counters a lot of the sacrifice (I did some maths at one point and ideally, it came to around about half) and those Vamp horrors increase the odds of survival for your army - one big Fiend ball isn't desirable.
BotM spam and OoU won't kill you if your backline is good.
Fiends don't get in your way too much - it shouldn't matter for casters and lots of melee minions may be more annoying for your physicals. Do note though, that having lots of fiends hanging back can block the enemy from reaching your squishy casters.

The drawbacks to an OoU bar over a bombing bar are:
Higher energy costs, higher sacrifice costs and a cramped bar that cannot take as much support. Two of those are compensated for by player skill and the advantages over the bomber bar are damage (and more of it) and mitigation at the same time.

As for how to pick between Curses and Death at the earlier stages of the game - flip a coin.
Heads: Curses
Tails: Death
If it manages to land on its edge, spec Blood instead.

Grim Lich · Aug 05, 2010, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas

Also, "OuU fiends army" has serious drawbacks:
1. takes time and needs tons of nrg to make and maintain 10/11 fiends army
2. blood of the master and OuU spam will kill you without vampiric minions
3. fiends die easily with even 1 aoe enemy spell since they stack together
4. many times they block party members from advancing/attacking since they have range attack.

As I type this, I am vanquishing Bahdok Caverns with an OoU fiend team, so this info is accurate from my standing.

1. I'll agree starting is difficult, that's why I reccomend bringing another minion to mix in while making fiends. I use Shambling Horrors, as they are quite sturdy (Jagged horrors don't hurt either) and their long recharge time actually helps keep a good balance of # of Fiends per Shablings. When you reach ten/eleven minions, energy should be coming in easy as every additional minion casting will kill one triggering soul reaping. At that point, only make fiends. Pretty soon you'll have the full 10/11 and they'll be maintainable. But if you fall too low in numbers (I usually go by 6 or lower) it's time to make Shamblings again.

2. Not in the least. First of all, you should not be spamming either OoU or BotM. If you are, you have forgotten the first job of a MM. New Minions last longer than old ones healed. So you can't have OoU on at all times. I usually go by this order in a battle (skipping parts that not applicable):

-Cast OoU as your minions engage the enemy
-Cast BotM once to keep your minions alive through the attack
-Cast any support spells (I usually bring YMLaD as an interrupt for Eles)
-Things die. Soul Reaping Kicks in. Summon Minions. (Usually just one fiend per SR refill. Unless you want Shamblings too, than it's one of each)
-Reapeat

Only reasons you should be dying because of OoU is:
-Your new at it
-You decided to try to keep it going all the time
-With a dervish boss hitting 200s on you, you decide that is the time to BotM

3. One? Eh. Not really. They can handle one. Two in a row? Not so much. So yes, you have a point, and it's one I know too well. (Meteor is the worst) Nothing you can do about it, unless you want someone to Ward against the elements them, but that's a waste of time. This is why I personally bring YMLaD, to interupt at least a few spells to keep my Fiends alive. Also don't forget them keeping close is useful if you want to use EBSoH. (I don't since it's way to much multitasking for my liking.)

4. I've never had that problem, as I usually H/H and I only bring one Meele at a time. (Holy(Derv) Hench at the moment) Rest is casters, as I don't need a tank, that's what the minions are for! But I can see that being a problem for those who perfer their Warriors/Assasins/Dervishes

maxxfury · Aug 05, 2010, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

Not in the least. First of all, you should not be spamming either OoU

Abusing it on recharge is how you get the big numbers ^ the health loss is manageable.. even with Maso on your bar too.. or at least i had no trouble spamming it on recharge with little to no adverse effects:S so long as you compensate for the health loss beforehand.

Grim Lich · Aug 05, 2010, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Abusing it on recharge is how you get the big numbers ^ the health loss is manageable.. even with Maso on your bar too.. or at least i had no trouble spamming it on recharge with little to no adverse effects:S so long as you compensate for the health loss beforehand.

I usually give it a small lag in between casts. At least in HM in NM oh yeah, no adverse effects of just spamming.

Xenomortis · Aug 05, 2010, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

I usually give it a small lag in between casts. At least in HM in NM oh yeah, no adverse effects of just spamming.

There's no performance benefit by not spamming OoU on recharge - it's just hard to do and you won't be able to do it all the time.

The Riven · Aug 05, 2010, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

There's no performance benefit by not spamming OoU on recharge - it's just hard to do and you won't be able to do it all the time.

^ This.
OoU can (and should) be energy intensive, to maintain a large army of minions is hard work, the sac is basicly meaninless if you do it right, its the speed of your team and keeping up with them while maintaining a sizeable minion wall that is the only difficult part.

thetwistedboy · Aug 05, 2010, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Probably MM. Given that 99% of people in PuG's have no remote idea what they're doing, awesome skills like MoP are less useful because the physicals (probably spamming Healing Breeze on themselves or something equally stupid) won't follow your calls. If you need some curse spells you can always throw them onto the end of the MM bar.

ok im probly gonna sound stupid for saying this, but in my 3 years of guild wars, i have always seen MoP as a pointless skill for manly spikes, and general PvE. can someone please explain why this skill is so popular? its only 35 more damage. i just dont see the 'power in that'

Xenomortis · Aug 05, 2010, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetwistedboy

ok im probly gonna sound stupid for saying this, but in my 3 years of guild wars, i have always seen MoP as a pointless skill for manly spikes, and general PvE. can someone please explain why this skill is so popular? its only 35 more damage. i just dont see the 'power in that'

42 AoE damage every time the target is hit for physical damage? That's powerful.
Physical damage comes from Warriors (Hundred Blades causes many physical triggers), Assassins (fast dual attacks), Dervishes, Paragons, Rangers (Dual and Triple Shot are nice), Pets and Necromancer minions (having 11 isn't unreasonable).